RE: Homework-Education-Training/Optimization/Econo

[Kromkowski@alo.com]

Date: Tue, 3 Oct 2006 21:22:16 +1000
From: "Ivan Webb" <Ivan.Webb@bigpond.com>
To: <den.list@deming.ces.clemson.edu>
Subject: RE: Homework-Education-Training/Optimization/Econo

Of course this is only a tiny part of what is actually a large and complex enterprise: schooling for education. Like one's golf scores, Ben's example involves the use of clear, simple and agreed data. 

JDK:  Well, the problem is of course, that Ben's example is a fiction! You even it call it a mock up.

If it was real, think Deming would say that Ben has not reached a state of statistical control yet (he is still learning and mastering the skill) and therefore more practice would be of use.  

Indeed, the improving nature of the scores (by Western Electric Rules or some such) indicates we might investigate for a special cause.  And I have one:  he is still learning. 

But at some point, he will reach a statistical control, at which point, more of the same practice will be of no value.

But when would that point be and how would we know?

IVAN: Education is not only about such simple phenomena. 

JDK: NO it is not, but neither is anything.  Perhaps we should contemplate the subtitle of TNE  (anybody remember it?)

Starting at the Deming text, I think will help us better critique or affirm.

IVAN:  At some stage it might be useful to discuss the limitations of Deming's thinking. For example, 
- Are systems actually real? We often drop the 'thinking' from 'systems thinking' and talk about things as if they were systems.
- Is it always valid to think of something a system, just because we can conceive of it as a system? 
- Are all systems equivalent? 
- When is it valid to transfer systems thinking that has been useful in one area of endeavour to another, eg, from production of material objects to the education of people? 
- What does reducing variation mean in an endeavour (like education)that is about creating change?

JDK:  What does Deming directly suggest? I really think citations would help us avoid a game of post office.

And I didn't know education was about creating change? I suppose one could put it that way, I wouldn't necessarily.  

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